When you’re dealing with a narcissist, the first thing you should do is cut ties and run. But if you don’t have that option, then you need to know how to negotiate with a narcissist. Today’s guest is Rebecca Zung, one of the Top 1% of attorneys in the nation. Rebecca discusses with Jen Du Plessis how narcissists have no inner sense of value, so they have to suck it all from the external world. If you do not put strong barriers, you will get drained until there’s nothing left of you. Tune in to get a glimpse of Rebecca’s SLAY method of negotiating with narcissists.
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How To Negotiate With A Narcissist And Win! With Rebecca Zung
My wonderful guest is Rebecca Zung. She is one of the Top 1% of attorneys in the nation having been recognized by US News and World Report as a Best Lawyer in America. She has been on TV shows. She’s been on Newsweek, Dr. Drew, NPR Talk Radio, Good Day New York, and CBS Los Angeles. She’s the author of two books. The first is Negotiate Like YOU M.A.T.T.E.R., which is an acronym. We’re not going to spend time with that and Step-by-Step Divorce Guide. Both great, wonderful books that you’ll be picking up. Most importantly is what she does so well is she helps people understand how to negotiate with a narcissist and win. We’re going to talk about that extensively.
Welcome to the show, Rebecca. I’m so happy to have you here with me.
Thank you for having me. It’s my pleasure to be here with you.
We’ve had so much fun because we didn’t do just greenroom but we’ve also done almost an hour-long phone conversation because we fell in love with each other and said, “We got to talk and see what the possibilities are.” Attorneys are a dime a dozen, we know that. I was in a commodity world too. How did you go from being an attorney and maybe you had a specialty to being the superpower that you are now in helping people negotiate to win against people that are so self-consumed?
It’s in a number of different ways. I believe that all of us have a purpose in life. Everything that we do leads up to that exact moment where it all comes together, and there you are. I didn’t set out to do this. Honestly, when I tell people what I do for a living, “I help people negotiate with narcissists.” I have to laugh a little bit. That is exactly what I dreamed of doing when I was seven years old playing with my dollies. I’m kidding. It just so happen that I was a divorce lawyer and I was an entrepreneur at heart. I loved building the practice. I created this massive large practice. I had many clients and way too much work to do. I didn’t enjoy the gerbil wheel phase of it. I built the practice. I wrote the book, Breaking Free: A Step-by-Step Divorce Guide. I did some interviews around that. I wanted to spend more time with my daughter, who’s now in college. She was starting high school and I was like, “I got to do something else with my life. I want to be more creative. I want to do other things.” That was the first step.
I have been teaching people how to negotiate for years because as a divorce attorney and building my practice, I needed something to speak to people about and nobody wanted to hear a divorce attorney come in and speak. I needed to come up with something to speak to Rotary Clubs, associations, or whatever, so I came up with this negotiation talk. I’ve been teaching on it for years, and I was even the keynote speaker for an American Bar Association meeting and all this stuff.
I was like, “I’m going to write a book on negotiation,” which is what I did. Robert Shapiro came forward and did the foreword for it. I thought, “This is my path,” because I was learning about digital courses and things like that. At that same time, I came to realize that two people in my life were making me completely miserable and causing what I call drama, trauma, and chaos into my life. Somebody who’s a friend of mine, who’s the psychologist said, “These people are covert narcissists.” I was like, “I never even heard that term before.”
To me, a narcissist was the big, braggadocious person. These people were not that. I bought books on covert narcissism. I started reading about narcissism and I started learning everything I could because it was like, “It’s clear that’s what these people were.” One was in a business setting and one is an extended family member. As I started learning about narcissism, I was like, “I could put this together. I could take what I’ve learned about negotiation, put it together with what I’ve learned about narcissism, and see if it makes any difference in the cases that I have.”
I only ever practiced in high net worth divorce, billionaires, and celebrities. There’s a narcissist or two in that little world. I started to see movement. I started to figure it out. Once I figured out the psychology of these people, I was able to figure out how to do it. I thought, “Let me start doing a couple of videos on YouTube and see if anybody is interested.” My channel blew up. I got 100,000 subscribers and over six million views. That was where the birth of my program, Slay Your Negotiation, came out of. I don’t even practice law anymore because this is all I do all day long.
I have lots of questions for you. As people are reading this show, and they’re saying, “I know the word narcissist.” In my opinion, we have different definitions of that. You said you have a covert narcissist. This is like a closet narcissist. They can dig from underneath. They’re like burrowing up to grab you and pull you down while you’re out paying attention to all the people. It reminds me of DISC profiling where you’re doing the Dominating, Influencing, Setting, and Controlling. By the way, I’m a super high. I like off the circle I.
I had that done and I did a little show on my podcast with two DISC experts on that.
I want to have fun, and then I’m a C because that I is like the eyes of a helium balloon, and the C is the string that holds my helium balloon down. I want to have fun, but then my C is going, “What? Wait, hold on. Wait a minute.” It’s interesting. I’m wondering a couple of things. One is, I want you to take a quick minute to explain what a narcissist is for people that are already on their phones going, “What is it exactly?” The true meaning of it. I’d then like to have you talk about how can you identify them in some words they use, somebody language they have, or tone? How do we identify that we are dealing with the narcissist whether covert or not? We’ll talk about how we’re going to work against that or work in a way to win to ensure that they don’t steamroll us.
It’s hard to see it first because they’re good at the beginning of any relationship, whether it’s covert, which is more underhanded and hard to see. They’re more passive-aggressive. Their anger is underneath the surface. I loved your analogy of burrowing up from the surface and yanking down. That is such a great analogy. I’m remembering that. They all start out with what they call the idealization phase or the love bombing phase. They’re actually masters at reading people. They’re good at figuring out who they need to be, what they need to say, or how they need to present themselves so that they seem absolutely perfect.
I need this person as my best friend. I need this person as my boyfriend, my girlfriend, my wife, my husband, my business partner, or whatever. They’re chameleons. They all start off with this phase. The first red flag is going to be this person is quick to want to move the relationship along as fast as possible. They’re making deposits into this relationship because they want to start withdrawing. They don’t want this. They’re basically grooming you to become a source of narcissistic supply for them, which is anything that feeds their ego.
The faster we can move through here, the sooner they won’t realize that I don’t have depth.
Figure out what’s going on. They ensconced themselves into the relationship with you and that’s when they start devaluing you, and you start to see these little red flags happening. You start to see the manipulation happening, but by then you start to go, “I’ve already invested that. I’ve already been down that path.” I had this conversation with my cousin. He had started this project with somebody who’s turning out to be a narcissist, a business partner.
He’s like, “I’ve already talked to all these people. I’ve already started to get clients.” I was like, “Get out now. It’s not going to get better,” and it’ll be harder to get out of at that point. The other thing I want to mention about narcissism is it’s two things. They have no inner sense of value, so they have to suck it all from the external world. They have no ability to have any sense of feeling of care or empathy for the other person. I hear a lot sometimes on social media or whatever, where people will be like, “If you say anything that’s nice about yourself, like, I’m good at baseball, or whatever, that person is a narcissist because they said something good about themselves.” That is not a narcissist.
I said that to my team. I was having a meeting and I said, “I’m so proud of myself.” I wish I could tell you what it is to give you a good example. I was saying, “I’m proud of myself because I’m finally learning.” That isn’t narcissism, that is an outward acknowledgment that’s supporting my personal growth. For me, it is.
As women, a lot of times, we feel like we’re not supposed to champion ourselves or we’re not supposed to say anything good about ourselves because we’re going to get accused of being conceited, boastful, or narcissistic in this world since that word gets thrown around so often. What happens is we are not sticking up for ourselves. It’s okay if you want to champion yourself. That’s fine. It’s just the other side of it is, do you need to feel that you have value by devaluing, debasing, or degrading other people?
Do you think that’s where it starts? It’s not the personal compliment to yourself that says something, it’s more the way that you respond to others. We don’t want to look for the trigger of me, I, I’m great, I’m whatever but rather, the trigger of someone demoralizing someone else, putting someone else down, or finding flaw in what someone does. Is it more of a defense mechanism?
[bctt tweet=”All of us have a purpose in life, and everything we do leads up to that exact moment where it all comes together.” username=””]
It’s both in some ways. Having a sense of entitlement, magical thinking, or shamelessness are all actual factors that they look at for the DSM-5, that Diagnostic and Statistical Manual five that the psychiatrists use to diagnose a narcissistic personality disorder, which is an actual legitimate personality disorder. To me, it’s a spectrum. On one end of the spectrum, you’ve got the full-on empath person who is caring, feels good about themselves, and loves other people.
It then triangles or something that goes down. There are certainly degrees of it. There are definitely going to be people out there who are more narcissistic than others, but maybe not necessarily have NPD. This is what I say all the time. Even if the person’s a jackass, if they’re difficult to deal with, then it doesn’t matter if they’ve actually been diagnosed with this thing or something else. It’s what’s your experience in having to deal with them.
I can imagine that as a divorce attorney, you’ve had to deal with that quite a bit, or it rears its ugly head. This was amiable. We’re going to do this through mediation. We’re going to be nice to each other. We promise. All of a sudden, this stuff comes up and it’s not the me as much as it’s bad against the other person. That’s where all the communication drops down. Tell us how this reveals itself in business as opposed to how it would reveal itself in a marital situation? Obviously, we’ve all experienced people who have gone off the deep end. How does it reveal itself in a business situation to know when we need to cut our losses and say, “I’m not the right person for you because that’s cancer for me, my team, my business, and my practice?”
Unfortunately, I had to deal with this myself in a business setting. I have many examples that I could use. In some ways, I wish I didn’t, but on the other hand, it’s helped me do what I do now. Everything happens for a reason. In my particular situation, I was in a place in my life where I was starting something new. This person also was ready to start something new. I was vulnerable to it. I would say be careful if you’re vulnerable, feeling fearful about something new, feeling fearful that you won’t be able to handle something, and so you’re looking for someone to fill that void for you. Whether it’s in a business partnership, somebody to run your company, somebody who to work for you, or somebody who’s working for you.
It’s a magic pill that a person has. It’s the gap that you’ve been looking for. You put yourself in a vulnerable position because you are scrambling for the need of it so much.
Be careful. It’s not worth it. Step back. Take a deep breath. Choose what you want. It’ll be okay if you choose and get there. I had a friend who’s also a business coach, and she said to me, “You think when you’re starting something new that you need somebody, but you don’t.” That was the best advice for me. Everything I do now, I don’t have a partner. I have strategic alliances and relationships. People that I do certain things with. We collaborate. All that is great. That was one of the things. Another thing was red flags at the beginning of the relationship where the person would say that they would do things, and then they didn’t come to fruition. You’re then left in a situation where it’s like, are you supposed to be nagging this person? Do you do it yourself? Do you bring it up, and then they get defensive or they say they’re doing it? You ask about it, and they just did whatever it was because you asked about it. They half-ass it. You start to feel like they’re resenting you for asking them about things that they said they were going to do. You don’t want to have to police people. That was one that I saw. Things that don’t add up.
How does that relate to someone being a narcissist? Some people are not good with follow-up.
The person I was dealing with was a covert narcissist who had no fragile sense of self. There was a lot of passive aggression. I felt that undertone all the time, this constant competition almost. They seem like they’re being competitive with you or they’re trying to put you down in certain situations. Things that are not adding up like money situations. I knew that there was a client involved, and the money didn’t come into the account. I was told that the money went into this other person’s account because she didn’t know how to do the bookkeeping or something, which didn’t make any sense to me. The money never ended up coming into the business account.
There’s a lack of integrity behind it. As you’re explaining that, I’ve had that situation where someone gave me my word, and I didn’t know. I didn’t know how it worked. I was like, “I’m sorry. Let me get to whatever and find out,” and then I solved the problem. From her perspective, it wasn’t adding up that I might not know, but I solved it. Every time you give these examples, I’m like, “This is me, except this, except that.”
If you call somebody out on it like a non-narcissistic person will say, “You’re right. I’m so sorry. Let me do it now.” You don’t feel that sense of competition all the time. There are these little digs. Narcissists attach themselves to people. I always say this, “They don’t attach themselves to you because you have so little value. They attach themselves because you have so much.” They want to suck the value out of you literally. I felt, with this person, that she literally wanted to be me. I knew nothing about narcissism. I just remember feeling like, “I don’t mind sharing, but please don’t try to be a pod, take over my body, and try to be me.” It was the strangest situation.
They’re value vampires.
The word is energy vampire, but value vampire is good, too.
I get what you’re saying there. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. That’s good. If you feel like you’re dealing with someone who is a narcissist, do you cut bait and run? You’re saying how to negotiate with them, so should I stay long enough? When do I know when to leave and when to sit? When to hold them and fold them?
You always should get out of it as soon as you can and realize what’s happening, you need to get out of it. I’ll see some people, every once in a while, comment here or two on Facebook saying, “Why are you bothering to teach them how to negotiate? Get out, go leave.” Not everybody has that option. If you’re dealing with them in a business situation, and there’s money involved, employees, the value of the company, maybe it’s intellectual property that you have to deal with. It’s in a real estate situation. It’s a house which is oftentimes the largest asset for people. You can’t just walk away sometimes. The key is going to be in creating strategy and leverage so that the person wants to come to the table and wants to have a conversation with you in a reasonable normal person way.
That leads us to your Slay method in how to overcome those narcissistic tendencies that they have. You already mentioned Strategy and Leverage, but you also have Anticipate and You. Walk us through, “I need to have a strategy. I have no idea what that strategy should be. Should I be like them? Should I counterbalance them? What should I do?” What do you mean by leverage? Because you’re walking towards that anticipation of how they’re going to react that you ultimately want the yes. Talk to us about the strategy and leverage as it leads to the anticipation of their response.
Anticipation means a couple of different things. Strategy, there are three steps to strategy that I teach people in my Slay program, which are the diagnosis, figuring out what’s going on, and what kind of person I’m dealing with. That’s part of your anticipating, too. Your guiding policy or your vision. In other words, “Where am I going? What am I doing?” Everything is going to help filter through that. Sometimes, when people are in crisis or fire mode, they forget to figure out where do I want to go with this?
It seems obvious, but I’ve seen many people who don’t even think about that. All they can think about is making the other person look bad or survival. Having a guiding vision or policy, and then creating an action plan. Part of the action plan is actually figuring out what your leverage is and when you’re going to use it. Be tactical about all of that. Your action plan is also much more than just creating leverage. It’s also, what do I need to research? Do I need to research my side? What do I need to figure out from my side? What are their arguments going to be and how do I research them? I tell people to stand in their shoes.
Action plan also, a part of the strategy is, where are these negotiations going to take place? When are they going to take place? What am I going to wear? How do I create rapport? What does my body language look like? There are so many things that go into strategy. Leverage is part of a strategy. It’s that thing that you create that squeezes the other person that makes them feel more incentivized and motivated to want to have a conversation with you. With a narcissist, it’s often creating a situation where they feel like a supply source is going to be threatened. A supply source that means more to them to protect and maintain, and the supply that they get from jerking you around because they get supply from that, too.
Give us an example of some leverage you could give with someone. Aside from the strategy, you’ve done all that work, but just I have a clear understanding of the leverage, is it a fast action item when you talked about supply? Is it we’ll make the decision today or we’re moving on?
That’s something that I think is good. When you get to that point where you’re saying you make that decision. There are so many hours. When you’re dealing with a narcissist, you got to think about it in terms of a long game. There’s rarely going to be a smoking gun. Leverage can be any kind of things. I tell people, if you’re dealing with them in a case, putting together a summary of lies and inconsistent statements that you’re going to present to the judge or to the mediator, that’s a great source of leverage. They won’t believe you went back through every single text message and email and actually pulled them all together, and match them up, and said, “On this day, you said this. On this day, you said that. It’s a lie.”
I feel that from that person’s perspective of, “Wait a minute, you’re going to reveal my truth. You’re going to reveal this deposit that I made. All of a sudden, you’re withdrawing all of these deposits that I’ve made to be.” Anticipating what their objections might be or the way that they’re going to respond to that so you can get yourself on your way to a yes. There is a lot of work in this. Slay sounds like a short word like, “Let’s slay them. Let’s knock their head off,” but there’s a lot of work involved in that. I can see why people are saying, “Let’s back up.” What’s the result when you can get through this? What is in it for us who are not them, in being able to overcome that? What are some of the great benefits that we get?
There are so many, and the first one is not even what you might think. You can win the negotiation and have a fair result or an outcome. That’s number one. Number two is going to be that you have an agreement that actually sticks. Even if you can force an agreement, it’s going to fall apart if you don’t use methodology like what I’m teaching people how to do. You’re dealing with trying to keep the whole thing together.
[bctt tweet=”You think when you’re starting something new that you need somebody, but you don’t.” username=””]
That’s worse than dealing with them in the beginning.
It’s a mess. The biggest piece to me, all the people who’ve ever done my program, graduated, and done the negotiation, they tell me that they feel more powerful in every aspect of their lives. They spot these people. They know how to deal with difficult people all the time because we’re negotiating all day long. Everything is a negotiation. Now they have a different mindset. They feel more empowered. They feel stronger. They feel more courageous. You can’t even put a price on.
I want to shift gears on this and talk about how do you do this with your family. How do you do it with a family member that you’re constantly feeling like you’re negotiating with? You used different words like bipolar. They’re friendly one minute and then they’re like, “Who are you?” You feel like you’re walking on eggshells because you don’t know who you’re going to get anymore to the fact that my daughter, when she was a teenager, we called her Whitley. Her name is Whitney, but we had a Whitley name for her too.
Sometimes she was Whitney, and she was cuddly and all this stuff. The next thing you turn around, we had Whitley on our hands and couldn’t get her to do anything. Not take out the trash, not clean her room. We were constantly negotiating with her. I’m not saying she’s a narcissist. I’m saying, how do you deal with this when it’s family? We’re not talking about pieces of paper that we’re filling in blanks, it’s contractual, and it’s going to cost us money if it doesn’t go right. How do we do this from the heartfelt side?
It’s hard because we have a family member that we’re dealing with as well. We’ve gone no contact completely, which is super sad. It’s not an easy thing to do. It’s certainly not at all what we wanted, but they couldn’t help themselves from continuing to be toxic. The problem with narcissists is they don’t know how to be anything but manipulative in the world. That is their way of being. They lie about stuff they don’t even need to lie about and stuff that’s readily verifiable.
It’s hard to deal with them because they don’t know anything other than manipulating situations. Even when things aren’t good for them, they continue to do that. I advocate for either complete boundary like no contact whatsoever, or if you have to have contact with them, then having strong boundaries as far as being brief. One of the little memes I have in my webinar which is “Just the facts, ma’am or sir. I understand that’s how you feel. You’re certainly entitled to your opinion.” Leaving it over there on their side of the equation. It’s not coming over here. It’s staying over there. That’s how you feel, I understand. You’re right, that’s your perception, everybody has their own and that’s what you think.
This is so timely for us because my husband’s mother passed away, and we are dealing with his brother and everything is about him. He throws back all the time. My husband got the whole house. He got her house and he thought he was going to get half of it. “You don’t need it because you have two people in your household.” He’s always saying that we don’t need it. My husband is like, “I’m going to give him everything.” I go, “No, you’re not.” It’s not because we need it. I keep saying the principle of the matter. “It’s because it was gifted to you. You have just as much right as him.”
In those situations, I would say, “I can see from your perception that you don’t think it’s fair. That must be upsetting for you. Unfortunately, mom left things the way she did, and that wasn’t my choice. I’m going to honor her wishes,” and leave it at that.
We were talking about this with our family, our kids. My husband’s like, “I feel bad. I want to give him something.” I’m like, “He is suckering you in.” He goes, “Maybe I’ll give him $50,000.” “No.”
Here’s the problem with that. Even if he gave him $50,000, he’d want more because it’s not about that. It’s about him controlling your husband and making him feel the heat. They enjoy that process of making people squirm. That’s how they get narcissistic supply. “I’m making this son feel uncomfortable and good. I’m squeezing him.” There are some other resentments that he’s not good enough, he didn’t get enough, he wasn’t loved enough, or whatever it is. There’s all that stuff going on, and throwing money at that black hole is not going to close the hole. It will just disappear into the hole and it’ll still be there.
My son said something good. He said, “Let the will be the bad guy, not you. You’re not the bad guy.” That was a switch that turned on for my husband. We were talking about it forever, and that switch, he’s like, “You’re right.”
That’s what I was saying like, “Her wishes were her wishes. I’m honoring her wishes. I’m sorry that you’re upset that I’m honoring her wishes, but that’s what I’m doing. There’s nothing more we can do.”
I hope that vulnerability of my example of what’s going on in my household.
It is helpful because then people can see.
People can see exactly what I’m talking about. You’re able to respond to that and say this is the way to look at it. I wanted the validation. Isn’t it funny how God brings people into your life at the time when you need them? It’s amazing. The fact that we’re doing this at a time where we had a weekend of you know what with him. It’s been crazy. I love it. How do we open the door with you? If there’s an individual who’s reading this, how do we open that door to learn more so that we can be better at our sales, at entrepreneurship, at family negotiations, and at professional negotiations? What is the best way to open that door?
The first thing I would do is go to WinMyNegotiation.com. It’s a URL that I created for people to be able to get my Crush My Negotiation prep worksheet. It’s an eBook. It’s free. It’s a good freebie. I packed it with lots of value because I wanted people to have lots of value. They can grab that and then my YouTube Channel.
I can’t wait to subscribe. I already have though.
If you go to YouTube, and you put in Negotiate with a Narcissist, I’m the only one out there who’s talking about it in a meaningful way. You’ll find my channel there and make sure you subscribe. I go live twice a week. I do Ask the Attorney Anything sessions and I have free webinars that people can sign up for. I give lots and lots of free content away.
That’s the thing about it. If the free stuff is that good, imagine what it’s like working with you directly.
I have a program. The SLAY program is not working with me directly, but it’s a four-hour crash course that people can do on their own. I do have some one-on-one sessions, but because I have 7 million views on YouTube, it’s limited. I do have some but everything is in my Slay course. It’s all there. I held nothing back.
That’s beautiful. That’s such a smart use of your time, too. I love that you do that. Of course, you have the availability for them to ask you questions in your other groups and stuff. You can have those group questions, and I get that. I get what you’re saying. When I was a top producer in the mortgage space, I got high up, everybody kept calling and calling. They want to pick my brain, pretty soon, I was spending all this time letting everybody pick my brain free and I wasn’t doing my work. I was like, “Something is suffering here.” That’s what started that podcast, Mortgage Lending Mastery. Bring your question, and let me answer them. This will be how we’ll do it, you’re going to get me but you’re going to get there. It’s good that you’re doing that for your own sanity. That’s important.
[bctt tweet=”Narcissists don’t attach themselves to you because you have so little value. They attach themselves because you have so much.” username=””]
I couldn’t even physically answer everybody’s questions. We get hundreds of emails a day. I have two girls and that’s all they do all day. I’m committed to people getting personal responses to their emails and their inquiries, and not getting some automatic reply because of what people are dealing with. First of all, I couldn’t physically do it myself. Second of all, I wouldn’t be able to provide any more content because that’s all I would be doing.
I have a question I want to ask you. If I were to come visit you in California, what would we do together?
We would walk on the beach right here on the strand amidst the vest. We go stop, have a drink, watch sunsets. That’s what I do with all my girlfriends. We walk on the beach, we go have coffee, have lunch, or whatever but the beach is my happy place.
I love asking that question to find out a little bit more about you and let people know the other side of you, not the part that we’re sharing here. Thank you again, Rebecca. It’s been such a pleasure. I’ve had so much fun getting to know you generally. I wish you the best. I know where you’re at in California, but I’m excited to hopefully have that opportunity to meet you one day as I’m heading out there for all these events that I’ve got planned coming up.
I love that opportunity, not because I want to walk on the beach, but asking you that question, in general. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much for giving us your wisdom. I love this play. Don’t forget, you can go to YouTube and find Negotiate with a Narcissist. That’ll be part of it and the beautiful gift that you have of giving us the worksheet of WinMyNegotiation.com. Thank you so much for sharing time with us. I’ve learned so much from this short period of time. That’s what’s important to me. It always is. It’s like, “Can I grow a little more?” I’ve grown more. This is another little reticular activator in my activities. Thank you again for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you for taking time out of your day to read. Please don’t forget to give us a great five-star rating and write us a review. Let us know what you thought about this particular show or any ideas that you would like to see on the show. We’d be happy to get the people in and go over those topics with you. We’ll catch you next time. Have a great week.
- Rebecca Zung – LinkedIn
- Negotiate Like YOU M.A.T.T.E.R.
- Step-by-Step Divorce Guide
- Slay Your Negotiation
- DISC experts – “The Personality Profile of a Narcissist (Spot and Avoid Them)” with Midori Verity and Carol Dysart on Negotiate Your Best Life with Rebecca Zung on Apple Podcasts
- Instagram – Rebecca Zung
- Twitter – Rebecca Zung, Esq.
- Facebook – Rebecca Zung, Esq. Top 1% Attorney, Narcissist Negotiation Expert
About Rebecca Zung-Clough
Rebecca Zung is one of the Top 1% of attorneys in the nation, having been recog-nized by U.S. News & World Report as a “Best Lawyer in America”, as “Legal Elite” by Trend Magazine, and recognized by her peers and the judiciary as AV preeminent rated in family law, the highest possible rating for an attorney by Martindale Hub-bell. She is the author of the bestselling books, Negotiate Like You M.A.T.T.E.R.: The Sure Fire Method to Step Up and Win (foreword by Robert Shapiro) and Breaking Free: A Step-by-Step Divorce Guide for Achieving Emotional, Physical, and Spiritu-al Freedom, and is a sought after major media contributor. Her perspectives are in high demand by television and print outlets, as she has been featured in or on Ex-tra, Forbes, Huffington Post, Newsweek, Time, Dr. Drew, NPR Talk Radio, Good Day New York and CBS Los Angeles among others. Now, based in Los Angeles, she is continuing to serve through her very popular YouTube channel, media appearances, podcast, articles and on-demand programs such as S.L.A.Y. Your Negotiation™ with a Narcissist and Breaking Free™ Divorce Masterclasses.
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